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(Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . We think mounting accessories in the arc between the top rail and the sides shows a lot of promise for easy control. ". Forged rather than cast aluminum is now the standard, and machining is more exact thanks to computer numerically controlled (CNC) automation. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. Our action test was designed to tell us more about trigger response and maneuverability than could be culled from a static benchrest session. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . They are dead to me. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? SIG MCX Virtus & SIG MCX Rattler Rifles | SIG SAUER Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Let's pick up there. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. Give a Gift Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB vs All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). Please keep us posted. Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. Thanks Bio. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). | The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM was best, producing 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM ammunition produced an average five-shot group measuring 0.9 inch across. Life has a melody. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. *Bullet weight measured in grains, velocity in fps by chronograph and accuracy in inches for best 5-shot groups at 50 yards. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) We applied a snap-on buttpad from Limbsaver and was pleasantly surprised at how much more comfortable it was to shoot. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. It was too short. A PDW is not a rifle. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. You have entered an incorrect email address! You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. I want to buy a PDWWhat takes the cake? | Sniper's Hide Forum I cant understand that. What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle thats easy to conceal. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Brand: Springfield. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. Thats as short as ARs get. Sig M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. What more can you ask for? Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. Perfectly tailored to man the ramparts of your home. Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. SIG MCX Rattler - Xtreme Guns & Ammo Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. Caliber: 300 AAC Blackout-MSRP: 1015. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. Runs great. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Cookie Notice 354K views 4 years ago In this episode of TFBTV, James Reeves reviews the SIG MCX Rattler, a 5.5" PDW in .300BLK that has been purchased for US SOCOM evaluation. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). This video does make me feel better about Springfield. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. I usually have to take break between mags. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. Its truly impressive. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. MCX or Saint - Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). I would use the 110-grain Barnes TAC-TX load and never feel undergunned. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. Pistol: Semi-Auto. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. After some time and the Rattler was more widely seen in the wild. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. For an AR, it conceals and transports incredibly well, is surprisingly soft-shooting, accurate and reliable, unique and fun. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. New Rattler- Should have done my homework. | SIG Talk The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. Awesome pistol by the way. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. It started expanding at about 6 inches and fragmented at 15, leaving just the lead core and base at 26 inches. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. WATCH: SIG Sauer MCX Rattler 5.56 NATO - An Official Journal Of The NRA Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. 7 Things You Need to Know Before Buying an AR Pistol The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. . Also, its loaded with frills not often found at this price point. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. For a full answer to that, were going to have to explore exactly what a PDW is, but before I do that, lets look at the specs of this gun. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. Apr 24, 2017 Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Saw that email pop up today. The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. Love this gun . Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. For more information, please see our Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. At the range, my first order of business was zeroing the Rattler and shooting five-shot groups with it at 50 yards using loads from Barnes, Hornady, Lehigh Defense and Sig. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. Ready to go where-ever it's needed, the MCX Rattler has a thin, foldable stock for easy concealment and stowage. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. Sig's new SnakeBite . Will it perform at greater distances? This is the MCX Rattler. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. 5.56 Rattler? | SIG Talk The Judge has been promoted! Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. But you may have noticed complete uppers selling for as little as $400 during the last rounds of holiday sales and complete carbines selling for less than $700. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. Springfield SAINT Edge PDW: New 5.56 Pistol Is Just 18.75 Inches Long http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to